Testwiki:Property proposal/Archive/16

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Discussion

GZWDer (talk) 09:57, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:S. As I understand it, this is description text for a URL. If done right this can be used as link text for the URL but that would require that we can translate it which would mean the datatype needs to be 'multilingual text' so I have changed the datatype above. OK? Filceolaire (talk) 17:41, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

No,I think we should use <website><an item for www.nobelprize.org>Template:P<title>, and create an item for www.nobelprize.org because Nobel Prize itself isn't a website.--GZWDer (talk) 05:30, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Then Template:O as this property isn't needed (in my opinion) since we already have Template:Q linked in the claim. Template:P is already available to be used for the title of a particular web page on a site and Template:P for a link to an item used as a source - which can have a url as a qualifier if the item is available online. Filceolaire (talk) 16:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Not enough support, no consensus.--Micru (talk) 12:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

Schneelocke (talk) 10:59, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

There is a suggestion for "motto" at WD:Property_proposal/Place#Motto / Wahlspruch / Devise using multilingual or monolingual text. --  Docu  at 11:08, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done --Micru (talk) 10:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

In the same vein as Template:P and above nominated 'record held' property, allows connection between people (and other items) and their achievements. String datatype selected as it allows the first to be specifically detailed per the claim. Merely using Template:P does not clearly identify such event as a 'first' for the subject. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 00:09, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Support Emw (talk) 05:07, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
• The example is not particularly coherent to me. And the fact that it is a string is probably not appropriate. --Izno (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Neutral Strings does leave problems of translation and querying, but I doubt that there is ItemValue solution Macadamia1472 (talk) 04:20, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Oppose due to translation problems --Pasleim (talk) 18:04, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Oppose. First, the String datatype isn't built for lingual text. Second, this wouldn't be structured data at all. --Yair rand (talk) 19:24, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done As per comments.--Micru (talk) 13:01, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

I think that it has come up already but has not been formally proposed. This is sometimes needed, and will be even more useful with the quantiyy datatype (as the example show, and is likely) Zolo (talk) 06:24, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S Filceolaire (talk) 22:45, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Including

Template:Status → Property:P1012 Same as excluding (may not be as useful, but sometimes we need to make it implicit that something has been included in a figure) --Zolo (talk) 06:24, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S Filceolaire (talk) 22:47, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Done as Template:P--GZWDer (talk) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

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Template:Property proposal Note that it is different from Template:P, as it indicates what is measured and not how it is measured (in the case of population figures, criterion used would be something like "population wihout double compting" while P459 would be census or survey). I am not sure about the label, perhaps "definition used" would be clearer. --Zolo (talk) 06:24, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Crew / Sitzplätze / Équipage

Template:Vote delete - crew is to generic and should be requested at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Generic. --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:01, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Moved to generic and description updated. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 00:34, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

See the example : two Wikipedia articles, same subject. One from an elementary maths point of view, the other as a more advanced and detailed description. The only reason there is two articles is to allow two angles on the subject. The other maybe same as property is irrelevant. TomT0m (talk) 18:21, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

• See talks in my request on August 21!--GZWDer (talk) 14:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

  These discussions are case based, I propose another case, so these answers does not applies in this case ... thanks for the link though. The alias argument seems irrelevant as it's not a label question. TomT0m (talk) 18:41, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

1. Template:S proposer

• Template:O if an item is identic to another it should be merged. The example Template:Q is not the same as Template:Q but it is a didactic rewriting. In my opinion Template:Q should get a value is about or is summary of Template:Q.--Bigbossfarin (talk) 14:49, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

The immediate usecase that I have in mind is Mona Lisa: Template:P: purchase: by: Francis I of France. I think it could have many uses as a qualifier of "key events", but I am not perfectly clear how general this property could be. Arguably, a more generic "cause" could also be used, but it is rather vague, as it might mean various kinds of direct and indirect causes (in my example: "agent" can only be the person who made the purchase while "cause" may as well be "tax benefit"). Zolo (talk) 09:15, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Please add the data type to the template. --Danrok (talk) 23:20, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

done-Zolo (talk) 07:10, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of support.--Micru (talk) 10:14, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

• Template:S as proposer. This property lets us make explicit the meaning of the qualifier and include some basic logic. Filceolaire (talk) 22:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Modified Template:Q = "Not leap year". -- Lavallen^talk(block) 06:55, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

How about the way I have used Template:P in Template:Q? "

If ( -1973) then Uppsala county 
 else 
 If (1974- && ({{P|518}} = Alunda or Ekeby or Skäfthammar)) then Östhammar Muncip. 
  else
  If (1974- && ({{P|518}} = Östby or Tuna or Rasbo)) then Uppsala Muncip. 
endif

- Lavallen^talk(block) 14:23, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Let me think about that. Filceolaire (talk) 14:29, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Comment Enabling conditional expressions in Wikidata statements is a powerful idea, but it needs more thought than a property proposal. Of course, we're not just talking about "if part of". The relevant aspect of this proposal is the "if", which is applicable to many more properties than Template:P.

RIF (Rule Interchange Format) is a Semantic Web technology recommended by the W3C that enables things like if-else rules. It can be integrated with OWL. However, it's unclear to me whether the rules (e.g. if-else expressions) RIF enables can be part of a standard subject-predicate-object triple. This is probably worth a Bugzilla feature request and a talk with the developers. Emw (talk) 04:10, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Comment I think we could expand this and avoid Emw's concerns by calling this "in the case of". That would work for leap years, and also a situation I've been toying with on Template:Q:
  • Template:P
    • => Template:Q
      • => Template:P => 1933
      • => in the case of => Template:Q
    • => Template:Q
      • => Template:P => 1949
      • => in the case of => Template:Q

  --Arctic.gnome (talk) 00:49, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Not enough support.--Micru (talk) 10:17, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Army vehicle designation

Below there is:

• United States Navy aircraft designation
• United States Army aircraft designation
• Japanese military aircraft designation

I think that all these can either combined into one property (Army vehicle designation) or they can make use of Template:P together with the suggested "type of catalog". What is preferred?--Micru (talk) 15:45, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, this approach seems better to me. I think a new property such as military designation with a qualifier to indicate the military organization which uses the designation. Perhaps, Template:P could be the qualifier for this. Danrok (talk) 00:30, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose At the moment I am not in favor of putting these three desigations into a generic category with qualifier for a couple of reasons. First, they are defined sets of designations published and controlled by the requisite authorities. Second, there are limitations to qualifiers that make both entering and accessing this data more cumbersome when using a generic property with qualifiers. Having these properties is useful for both read and write operations. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 01:58, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose The advantage to the current system is that a computer can be programmed with a list of Authority Control Properties and recognise how to use them when it see them i.e. what website. If the location was encoded with an item there is no finite list of properties a programmer can check against and so the current system of individual properties makes more sense to one of WikiData's primary goals - be accessible to computers. Macadamia1472 (talk) 04:29, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done--Micru (talk) 14:50, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

World War II Allied name

Template:Info Allied forces used and widely published these names as assigned by Allied intelligence officers. They are not part of the official name of the aircraft, nor were they adopted by the Japanese, but they were a commonly used way to identify Japanese aircraft. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 12:49, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment - how about a general "war nick name" property which would work for all wars and for all languages. Maybe with language as a qualifier for the string. I found this example: M4 Sherman was called "Ronson" by the allies, because they always started to burn after being hit (qualifier English). The Germans called them "Tommykocher" (qualifier = German). Polish soldiers referred to it as the "burning grave". --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:55, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment That would be a lot broader, and this would no longer be an authority control property. I'm not sure at that point that just 'nickname' wouldn't be enough, as differentiating between a "war nick name" and "non-war nick name" would be problematic. The Allied code name list is an officially issued list of call signs, and therefore is an authority control property...to be such it must be limited to those names officially sanctioned by Allied authorities. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 06:05, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment this should be of "Template:Datatype" datatype. --Ricordisamoa 12:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I agree with Danrok below, that multilingual text would not work for this property, as they are officially issued names. Any attempted translation would be unofficial, and hence inappropriate for this property. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 06:05, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment This proposed property has a really bad name as it stands, since it mentions neither Japan nor aircraft. Stuartyeates (talk) 10:16, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I agree, but there was never an official short-form for the system adopted, so the English label is based off of the English wiki list article name. The fact that it is for Japanese aircraft is listed in the description. We could make it the full World War II Allied name for Japanese aircraft, but since it would only be applicable to Japanese aircraft, it seems a bit redundant. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 06:05, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I don't believe this can be handled using multi-lingual text. It is not necessarily language specific. According to the source, this is an official list of names used by the Allies. Not all of the Allies were from English-speaking countries, but they would have surely used the same reporting names to avoid confusion and mistakes. Danrok (talk) 03:16, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose I think 'codename' would be more appropriate as is includes designations given by all nations in all time periods. Qualifiers could then be used to distinguish who made desingated it i.e. <MiG-29> codename <"Fulcrum"> {designated by: NATO} For unofficial name i.e. by soldiers I would use a 'nickname' property with group i.e. Polish soldiers using the name specified as a qualifier. Macadamia1472 (talk) 04:33, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 18:17, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

The presence of the WKP identifier would make the efforts related to authority control works more transparent.
The presence of the authority control values as wikidata property would allow data distribution to various projects via Lua as used in Q11640331 Module:Authority control and also at projects using previous versions of Q3907614 Template:Authority control. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 08:27, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment This is only the title (lemma) of the English WP, not a real identifier. Using it is a transitional solution and I think VIAF will switch to Wikidata. --Kolja21 (talk) 14:24, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Please see the two VIAF ids at Q868 Aristotle

1. http://viaf.org/viaf/7524651/#Arist%C3%B3teles,_384-322_a.C.
2. http://viaf.org/viaf/297401150/#Aristotle

Many contributors may wounder about the linking of the WKP at the second VIAF id linked only to LoC and the Library of the Netherlands

with the modified AC tool (as the test variant from [1]) one can see the WKP indication

לערי ריינהארט (talk) 02:29, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Contra instead of creating random proposals we should concentrate on those with which we gain value. Do you feel responsible for fixing errors and maintain all those properties you propose?  — Felix Reimann (talk) 10:32, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Please see Q833926 Sacco and Vanzetti and the presence of the WKP id at http://viaf.org/viaf/61554505/#Vanzetti,_Bartolomeo,_1888-1927

This the Q219937 Bonnie and Clyde problem; see Q2319886 Bonnie Parker and Q3320282 Clyde Barrow

This is a main request regarding WMF and wikidata issues. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 12:08, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Of course, the VIAF mapping from http://viaf.org/viaf/61554505/#Vanzetti,_Bartolomeo,_1888-1927 to Q833926 is wrong. Q833926 is not one person but a group consisting of Q2886112 and Q2672924. However, it is not the task of Wikidata to fix VIAF. Hopefully, VIAF uses Wikidata to connect to Wikipedia articles in the future. Then, http://viaf.org/viaf/61554505/#Vanzetti,_Bartolomeo,_1888-1927 can be linked to Q2886112. Still, no need to propose arbitrary properties.  — Felix Reimann (talk) 12:34, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Whoever is responsible for WKP (either WMF or OCLC or whoever) they probably realized how important it is to be able to use any keyboard. I do neither have direct access to special Romanian nor to special Icelandic characters. I can not type Yiddish. Please look at Q335832 Þórarinn Eldjárn · viaf:46788959. In the History of VIAF ID:46788959 (12) section of the VIAF record you will see: WKP|Þórarinn_Eldjárn. However the label at the top of the page is ASCII only Eldjarn, Thorarinn · icon:Wikipedia mousehover Wikipedia (en)-test. So they are two values there (for WKP at VIAF). לערי ריינהארט (talk) 11:13, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

In the source code of viaf:46788959 you can find

<a title="Authority/Source Record" alt="Authority/Source Record" onmousedown="doMouseDown(event, 'WKP|&THORN;&oacute;rarinn_Eldj&aacute;rn')" onmouseup="doMouseUp(event)" onmouseout="unselectNode('WKP|&THORN;&oacute;rarinn_Eldj&aacute;rn')" onmouseover="selectNode('WKP|&THORN;&oacute;rarinn_Eldj&aacute;rn')" id="WKP|&THORN;&oacute;rarinn_Eldj&aacute;rn" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9E%C3%B3rarinn_Eldj%C3%A1rn">
    &lrm;‡a 
  <span>Eldjarn, Thorarinn</span>&rlm;
  </a> ...

Please note that these values are not normalized (see Template:Q ) as standard behaviour in MediaWiki projects. Here html entities (Html entity see Q1344910 and Template:Q ) are used.

This needs further discussion. לערי ריינהארט (talk)

Template:Contra Wikipedia Lemma is neither a unique nor a stable identifier. pl:William Smith (1728-1814) = de:William Smith (Maryland), and both lemmata can change tomorrow. --Kolja21 (talk) 13:39, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

It was not my idea to use plain text for WKP at VIAF. I assume thet 0,1% of WMF people knows who is behind addinf Wikipedia to viaf pages. I guess that 90% of all visitors to vaif.org pages may beleave that the links and the icons provided there are the non plus ultra of human intelligence.

I proposed the creation of the WKP identifier in order to monitor how viaf.org is linked to Wikipedia. It is like having admins looking / watching vandalism. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 14:42, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Consensus not reached.--Micru (talk) 14:49, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

The Internacia Esperanto-Muzeo en Vieno is the greatest diaspora library of the Esperanto movement. It is integrated in the Austrian National Library. The identifier would be a complement to VIAF identifiers available here.
The identifier should not start with an non ASCII character in order to use any keybord to collect the required values. Regards לערי ריינהארט (talk) 13:49, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:S Pikolas (talk) 15:11, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment 1. Are you sure that the Austrian National Library uses authority control identifiers? 2. If yes: Where can we find the authority data? 3. Could you give an example? --Kolja21 (talk) 17:55, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Examples:

1. http://aleph.onb.ac.at/F?func=find-b&find_code=WRD&adjacent=N&request=Bein%2C+Kazimierz
   is a search string to Bein, Kazimierz see Template:Q
2. http://aleph.onb.ac.at/F?func=find-b&find_code=WRD&adjacent=N&request=Hilsenrath%2C+Edgar
   is a search string to Hilsenrath, Edgar see Template:Q
3. http://aleph.onb.ac.at/F?func=find-b&find_code=WRD&adjacent=N&request=Ito+Kanzi
   is a search string to Ito Kanzi see Template:Q

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Wikipedia in Esperanto is linking hundreds of pages to the general catalog at Austrian National Library. Some years ago there was a web page for the books related to the collection related to constructed languages. It was a subset only for the Esperanto Muzeum. I copied from the bottom of eo:Ito Kanzi the last line.

*Verkoj de kaj pri Ito Kanzi en la Kolekto por Planlingvoj kaj Esperantomuzeo

It would make more sense to include such links in the Authotity control template which would retrieve the values via Lua. So other WMF projects could benefir as well. Regards לערי ריינהארט (talk) 21:00, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose Invalid proposal. The examples are showing names, not identifiers. In fact there is no OeNB identifier. Result of a 10 sec. Google research: The Austrian National Library uses Template:P for authority control.[2] --Kolja21 (talk) 21:59, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:OpposeNo unique identifier. Use URL instead.  — Felix Reimann (talk) 16:20, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

FYI: added url anchor via <font id="OeNB" /> לערי ריינהארט (talk) 14:29, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Consensus not reached.--Micru (talk) 16:43, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

RERO can be used in connection to a large Esperanto center in La Chaux-de-Fonds. Examples:

1. Q12571 Edmond Privat · viaf:34493446 is using the RERO value vtls003712762
2. Q15054444 Ignat Florian Bociort · viaf:25111246
3. Q12836 Renato Corsetti · viaf:122293157
4. Q2911403 Yehonatan Geffen · viaf:59225384

לערי ריינהארט (talk) 06:59, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:S Pikolas (talk) 16:20, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:O No OPAC / web page for authority files. The number is only researchable through VIAF = redundant. --Kolja21 (talk) 01:14, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done as per Kolja21. If the situation changes it can be reconsidered.--Micru (talk) 16:41, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

0,1 % of all authority control records require 25% of the required work time. The identifier is used already as a parameter at de.Wikipedia. It can be detected with my clone version of Magnus Manske's authority control.js tool.
At Template:Q · viaf:120155551 it indicates:

• de.wikipedia From authority control template
  • GND 140993142
  • LCCN n50042127
  • VIAF 120155551
  • REMARK GND-Typ:Sammelpseudonym

because de:Nicolas Bourbaki contains
{{Normdaten|TYP=p|GND=140993142|LCCN=n/50/42127|VIAF=120155551|REMARK=GND-Typ: Sammelpseudonym.}}
Regards לערי ריינהארט (talk) 08:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Question: I'm not sure I understand this proposal, do you want to import the free-text values from the REMARK ("Anmerkung" in german ) field into Wikidata? How would that work, the values would not be machine readable in any way? I also don't understand why this is an authority control proposal, the values of a free-text field can by design not be used to uniquely identify an item. --Mineo (talk) 17:22, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I think a better name would be "Comment" with multilingual datatype. This could be used for various purposes. Alternatively, for Cat Stephens, we need a name property (monolingual datatype) to give his various names. Filceolaire (talk) 21:59, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose as per Mineo and Filceolaire. --Kolja21 (talk) 20:36, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done As per comments it needs a different approach.--Micru (talk) 18:21, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

It makes sense to link to the Template:Q maintained by Template:Q from commons, he:, yi:, de:, pl: etc.
[3] is a list of ~ 250 authors with links to YIVO. Most of these pages have links Wikipedia articles at de:, ru:, en:, he:, pl:, epo: etc. Many contain VIAF and / or various VIAF related / connected identifiers. I added these links myself during the VIAF inter project linking work.
Some time ago Template:Q working at the Template:Q linked ~ 900 authors from YIVO to the German National Library DNB adding YIYO transliterations to the correlated PND / GND identifiers. A draft about that Template:Q can be found at [4]. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 20:11, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Here a 100% correct spelling is required: Shoshone for Susan, Khone for Ana, Leye for Eleonor, Itsik, Shloyme, Moyshe etc. needs to be used. Family name need YIVO spelling as well Goldfodn, Barenboym etc. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 06:28, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment The example is invalid. Please check your proposal. (The statement: "viaf:27980301 is using for the future YIVO the value ..." makes no sense. The fact is: VIAF is not using YIVO.) --Kolja21 (talk) 13:21, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

FYI: added url anchor via <font id="YIVO" /> לערי ריינהארט (talk) 14:33, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I don't see a connection between uniform URLs for the online version of a printed encyclopedia and authority control (and of course VIAF - dealing with National Libraries mostly - will never deal with this). However the project is probably important enough to justify linking with it and the URLs very well might be stable thus a separate property "YIVO Encyclopedia article" and values of URL type should be the right thing to pursue. -- Gymel (talk) 00:50, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

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Template:Comment It becomes clear that classifying Wikidata properties in the subdivisions existing today does not cover classes as reference and / or maintenance and / or descriptive (using qualifiers). It is very wise to keep the usage of identifier in the property names close to the definition of the Authority Control concept.
YIVO would be a reference, OeNB also. WKP would also be a reference while REMARK would be of descriptive type. There are more WMF parameter values as Typ used at pl.Wikipedia, at de.Wikipedia, soon at eo.Wikipedia, ro.Wikipedia, yi.Wikipedia and an increasing number of other WMF projects.
In order to avoid bot fights reintroducing outdated / deprecated identifier values these should be marked as invalid od deprecated and if applicable undifferenciated(?).
The usage at WMF projects via local template parameters and / or reffering(?) to the Wikidata values via Lua (pages from the Module namespaces) should be coordinated by a future Authority Control task force which should

1. try to identify the need of all involved communities and organizations colaborating to WMF or local chapters
2. consult / advise (beraten?) local communities and new coming WMF projects (by means of staring to use AC and related properties from Wikidata)
3. test and verify existing values / usage
4. help wherever support is needed an a common language found
5. keep the contact to existing Authority Control maintainers, as LoC, DNB, NTA, VIAF and report VIAF numbers which should me merged, conflicting VIAF clusters etc. It should be possible to implement a ticket system, The ticket reference is a candidate of o maintenance type Wikidata property.
6. implement a transparent signaling system to trigger bot actions; this would require a few maintenance type Wikidata properties
7. ...

Please keep in mind that the original data model using one to one relations only is not what reflects reality. Please remember that MediaWiki templates can not handle multiple parameter instances in the same template (to my knowledge only the last assigned value is used). With the growing number of national Authority Control bodies (organizations(?)) supported by Wikidata this phenomen gets more and more present. The believe in the original data model is like the believe in the seven commands in the Animal farm. The end of that story is "Fout legs good, two legs better".
Please feel free to move this contribution to whatever appropriate place. Regards לערי ריינהארט (talk) 18:06, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

• Here some additions. The order is arbitrary.
• Bot based source adding is useless if the values have never ever been verified on a regular basis since addition to the chain of linked WM projects. I encountered at Wikidata a few deprecated VIAF values I added in various WMF projects more then two years ago. This problem is basically based on the misunderstanding / the different views and usage of what a newbie might consider in his / her interpretation what a concept of permalink / permanent link should / would mean.
  • Here one would need some additional qualifiers about who has verified and / or confirmed which identifier (if the value hav´s been verified) and when by means of a TIMESTAMP (at least the year month day).
  • I can not read Japanese. The NDL identifier values can only be verified by persons able to read the JAPN script and understanding the language. (Please let me know if thre is an language option for this website. Thanks!) I assume that only a few values have been disputed / opposed so far.
• A ticked system is useless without a ticket feedback monitoring and management system / procedures.
• Most advance systems have implemented test cases in order to monitor quality. testcase would be a maintenance type qualifier. Please look how MediaWiki is developed. Each bot software revision should be able to handle the special cases first before a huge bot run is started.
  • A testcase could be https://viaf.org/viaf/243580238/#Stevens,_Cat where the value "undifferentiated" should be added as a qualifier. What happens today is that this identifier value gets deleted to be added at any point in time by a user / bot not being avare of DNB, pl.Wikipedia, de.Wikipedia etc concerns handling the concept of the Typ GNDName qualifiers.

• We should reflect if Wikidata is or should be a system able to grow / to evolute(?), to what extend it is an open system; when it is the best moment in time for expansions additions and might happen in the future only (posponed issues). We need to know what is the basis consensus, what is realistic to achieve and what we are able to do.
• Another strategy decision is to involve / recruit / attract professional librarians and interested volunteers.
• Regards לערי ריינהארט (talk) 19:34, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose Proposal is still not fixed, instead a lot of new ideas are presented that are confused and sometimes contradictory. (Adding wrong identifiers and mark them as "undifferentiated" is like adding the statement "country" to New York City with the qualifier "not true".) --Kolja21 (talk) 20:20, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done As per Kolja21.--Micru (talk) 10:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

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Discussion

Useful and well-structured database (and not part of VIAF, contrary to Template:P, also edited by the Getty Institute). Zolo (talk) 09:43, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Support as per Wikidata talk:Artworks task force/Item structure#Object type though it won't be trivial to use. --Marsupium (talk) 21:55, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Support --Kolja21 (talk) 22:37, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:S Pikolas (talk) 14:03, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done as Template:P . Does not seem controversial and I needed it.--Zolo (talk) 16:33, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Template:Support I was waiting for this. Values are a must at la.Wikipedia. Thanks a lot! לערי ריינהארט (talk) 20:09, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Please keep in mind that VIAF is only a collection of authority files. VIAF - like ISNI and WorldCat Identities - is useful, but also incomplete, out of date and faulty. If we keep harvesting authority files without using original sources WD will be a graveyard for obsolete data. @Gangleri: Please re-examine you edits on NLR (Romania) identifier first before starting with new authority files (see Property talk:P1003). --Kolja21 (talk) 20:26, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Two years ago I contact the manager of the "Globetrotter" / "Reise Verlag" publisher having more then thousand entries at DNB. More then 80% of the DNB records where "crappy". Last year I went some months to the National Library of Bavaria. Do you know how many specialized librarians are taking care of the DNB records about the "Weltbild" publisher? There are tons of books there. Many enter the storage room unpacked. "Die DNB kocht auch nur mit Wasser." That's reality. Each library and each nation should have its chance at Wikidata. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 16:22, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

You miss the point. I talk about how to use sources not about favouring one special library. You keep using VIAF instead using the original authority files. The result is that you flooding Wikidata and Wikipedia with wrong or outdated numbers. Beside errors like adding the same authority file for different people. For example: GND 119335328 for Michael Stourdza and Mihail R. Sturdza. --Kolja21 (talk) 22:48, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S to property creation, but don't import from viaf or clean up first what you import.--Micru (talk) 14:59, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done: Template:P — Ayack (talk) 18:29, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Janjko (talk) 09:38, 4 March 2013 (UTC) The title probably needs changing, I'm not a native speaker of any of those languages. Janjko (talk) 15:22, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Is there a template using this property? Should property + qualifier list every article this person has ever published? Note: We have "employer" (P108) for the newpapers or magazines a person has written for. --Kolja21 (talk) 13:53, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

There probably isn't a template, but this is still valuable information. Some notable people often write articles for newspapers, but I don't know if that can be considered being employed by a newspaper. They probably just get payed for that one article. Janjko (talk) 10:48, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose - it's works that should point to authors, not the other way around. --NaBUru38 (talk) 18:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

• You can't have items about each article ever created, and then point to writers. It's not viable. And even if you have items for articles, why not have both. If we have redundant father and son relations, why not article and writer. (Says User:Janjko, 11 March 2013 --Kolja21 (talk) 05:29, 15 March 2013 (UTC))

The Reference structure is now implemented so you can describe the reference using different properties: no need of one item for each reference. Snipre (talk) 10:07, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Comment I think it's a basic feature of a database to connect items in both ways. I've started a thread about this: Wikidata:Contact the development team#Relationship properties. --Kolja21 (talk) 05:33, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Template:Support works should point to authors, but this property is not for individual works, but instead notable publications. It would be less workable for Time Magazine to point to every notable author ever published in it, than for authors to point to Time. Either way it could become a ponderous list, but it remains a useful data point, so I support it. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 08:13, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose Wikidata aims to become a reference database for wikipedia so the works should point to the author and the whole list of works of a person can be retrieved through a query. Snipre (talk) 11:16, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what your point is, but you do know that Wikidata has aims other than serving Wikipedia's data needs, right? --Yair rand (talk) 13:06, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:S this looks like useful information which I don't think we can claim with existing properties. For example, someone may occasionally write articles for a newspaper, but they are not employed by the newspaper. Danrok (talk) 00:10, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose I think the actual articles/poems/sheet music should have a property indicating what publications/anthologies etc. it is published in, but don't think the authors should directly Macadamia1472 (talk) 07:04, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I think the point is that there may not be items in wikidata for the person's published articles. For instance, someone who contributes investment tips to a newspaper may never write an article which is notable on it's own, but their entire contribution may be notable because they have had a column for many years in a well-known newspaper. --Danrok (talk) 02:36, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

That is a good point but we would have to draw the line between "I am a respected columnist who has been published in the New York Times for 20 years" versus "I sent a letter to the newpaper about a typo and they published it on Page 32 under the corrections section." Macadamia1472 (talk) 06:34, 15 October 2013 (UTC) Retracted per Danrok's counter point Macadamia1472 (talk) 04:48, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Notable contributors should be easily sourceable, see here for example: Notable regular contributors (past and present). The way in which they contributed should not be a factor. Some notable contributors may well be letter writers. --Danrok (talk) 23:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus. --Micru (talk) 15:10, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Emigrated to (en) / Emigrato in (it) / emigrierte nach (de)

Discussion

Catalog this information.LucaBiondi (talk) 16:38, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I think Template:P should cover this aspect.--Kompakt (talk) 08:50, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Support useful information to keep  – Template:Unsigned/text/en
• Template:Support--109.113.185.27 17:24, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Why not have a property "emigrated" and then two qualifiers "to" and "from", each with a date? --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:55, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

"emigrated: yes", "to: Farfaraway", "since: longlongtimeago"?

Or how is that "emigrated-property" supposed to work? There will be not boolean datatype as far as I know. -- Lavallen (block) 08:50, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

After reading it a second time my suggetion does not make much sense and does imply a boolean datatype. --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:59, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Weak oppose. What data does this property add that is not already covered by Template:P?

Template:Q

• Residence: Template:Q from: 1895 to: 1912
• Residence: Template:Q from: 1912 to: 1913
• Residence: Template:Q from: 1913 to: 1926

It seems redundant to me. Mushroom (talk) 13:20, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Support

Yes Mushroom, user Nightwish62 proposed to me the solution below and i think might fit!

We should add only the "AS" generic qualifiers.

Item: Person XYZ

 Property: residence
  Value: country A (say, this is the place the person was born and lived for the first years)
   qualifier: start date
    Value: XX.YY.ZZZZ
   qualifier: end date
    Value: XX.YY.ZZZZ

 Property: residence
  Value: country B (say, he makes here a longer stay for several years, e.g. for education)
   qualifier: start date
    Value: XX.YY.ZZZZ
   qualifier: end date
    Value: XX.YY.ZZZZ

 Property: residence
  Value: country A (say, he came back to the country he has born)
   qualifier: start date
    Value: XX.YY.ZZZZ
   qualifier: end date
    Value: XX.YY.ZZZZ

 Property: residence
  Value: country B (say, this is the country he has emigrated to)
   qualifier: start date
    Value: XX.YY.ZZZZ
   qualifier: end date
    Value: XX.YY.ZZZZ
   qualifier: as
       value: emigrant

I filled for example P551 property (residence) in Q5563216 obviously without the "AS" qualifiers.

I think "AS" generic qualifiers is needed, also for other statements. It is a very generic qualifier which can be used for many claims. We could make the example above why such a qualifier is needed.

thanks LucaBiondi (talk) 14:10, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes that's the idea! I agree that an "as" qualifier would be useful, it could be used for the corresponding parameter in Wikipedia succession boxes (see en:Template:S-bef) and many other things. Mushroom (talk) 22:10, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose I think 'Template:P' or 'Template:P' can cover this so we don't need a new property. Filceolaire (talk) 02:01, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment residence and emigration are not always the same thing. Residence can be temporary or permanent. Emigration is generally more permanent. Danrok (talk) 16:05, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose It is possible that someone spends half the year in Hong Kong and the other half in Japan and alternates between but doesn't really emigrate to either as he always intends to returns. But this situation is so rare I doubt it justifies having 'residence' and 'emigrated to' if in 99% of people they will be the same. In the previous seasonal residence situation the following pattern could be used using qualifiers: <someone> residence <Hong Kong> {is a: seasonal residence during: April, May, June} Macadamia1472 (talk) 04:55, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 15:12, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Seat number

Discussion

Nominated as a qualifier property. Lavallen (block) 12:25, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose This kind of details doesn't seem to be specific to the position unless there are a clear difference between the different seats (and by difference I don't speak about the color of the seat). Snipre (talk) 11:54, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Comment Somehow we need to do this type of sorting. A chain of Successor/predecessor isn't ideal. Maybe a French Academy sample works better. --  Docu  at 08:18, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

  There are 349 seats in the parlament. If somebody becomes chairman, member of goverment, quit from parlament or is out of duty for at least a month (s)he is replaced by somebody else. That somebody else is a Template:Q. Each seat is connected to an intersection of a political party and an electoral district. A person sitting as replacement can sit on several seats during 4 years. The present Swedish prime minister has seat 51, but is replaced by somebody else as long as he is in the goverment. -- Lavallen^talk(block) 08:51, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

  And no, the color or the very location of somebodys chair is not connected to this seat number. As far as I know, they are not sitting on the same chair all the time. -- Lavallen^talk(block) 08:53, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of support.--Micru (talk) 15:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

name / name / nom / имя / in wiktionary

Discussion

This should take qualifiers

Template:Q

"name" => "Marshall Bruce Mathers III"

Template:P => Template:Q

Template:P => Template:Q

Template:P => Template:Q

Template:P => Template:Q

generational title => III

"name" => "Eminem"

Template:P => Template:Q

transliteration (Cyrillic) => Эминем

See my comment on this RFC.
This allows us to get the name exactly as the subject uses it (using the 'name' property) and still have links to items related to the various elements of the name by which it can be classified. Where the surname has male and female forms, for instance, the 'name' property can give the form used by the person while the 'surname' property links to an item dealing with both male and female forms. This could replace Template:P by using a qualifier Template:P Template:Q. Filceolaire (talk) 11:23, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose, like the whole idea to put all properties in a 'container'. If someone changes his surname, you can't use qualifiers for the time statement anymore. --Nightwish62 (talk) 17:14, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

  Are you sure?

Template:Q

"name" => "Marshall Bruce Mathers III"

Template:P => Template:Q

Template:P => Template:Q

Template:P => Template:Q

Template:P => Template:Q

generational title => III

from => October 17, 1972

to => August 20, 2013

"name" => "John Smith"

Template:P => "taken name"

Template:P => John

Template:P => Smith

from => August 21, 2013

-- Lavallen^talk(block) 17:22, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Comment Beside that: It's far away from any natural self-evident consistent statement structure, which no one would expect who isn't familiar therewith. If I'm looking for someone who's first name is "Hansjoggeli" then I'm expecting to make a query like "search for persons which first name is Hansjoggeli" and not "search for person which have a 'first name:Hansjoggeli' as qualifier of the property 'name', but must also have a qualifier 'instance of:name at birth'. --Nightwish62 (talk) 17:26, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

  I agree that the solution looks farfetched, keep it simple! -- Lavallen^talk(block) 17:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Nightwish: Is our search engine going to be so stupid that it can't find given_name:'Hansjoggeli' because it is in a qualifier instead of a main property? If so then the solution is to get a better search engine.

Lavallen: the simple way to use 'name' is without any qualifiers. Used like that it gives you a name you can use in infoboxes and you can search. Other users can come along afterwards and add the qualifiers. Seems simple to me. Filceolaire (talk) 00:09, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

• How would this deal with names that were/are written in multiple scripts? --Yair rand (talk) 02:07, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

  multiple scripts are not the only problem, see Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic. A name can be spelled in different ways in different languages with the same script, see Brūss Springstīns as an example. And transliterations can look differently depending on from which and to which language and depending on which transliterationsystem is used. And even within the same language can a name be spelled differently. -- Lavallen^talk(block) 05:53, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

The wikidata item will still have a Label which will give the name in 200 different languages. It will also have aliases for alternative spellings in each of those languages. The "name" property will be for the names that the subject uses. The qualifiers are so we can create categories of people with the same name and can search for people based on the generic form of their name. To search for them using the exact form of name that they use you should search in the "name" value, not the properties. does that make sense? Filceolaire (talk) 15:38, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose based on two things. We have to wait for mono- or multi-lingual datatype so the language can be saved with the string. And I think the qualifier should further describe the piece of information and not contain the piece of information. Time qualifiers are an obvious choice for names because people do change them. --Tobias1984 (talk) 07:15, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

I did think about this but names are independent of language. Your name doesn't change depending on the language, so string seemed more appropriate than monolingual or multilingual text. The qualifier does further describe the name - it links to wikidata items for the various components for the name.

People just don't seem to like this proposal :( and I thought I was so clever when I thought of this as a way to reconcile all the things we want to do with names. Sigh. Filceolaire (talk) 13:57, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

I do think that a name changes with language, especially because of the pronunciation. That's why I think this will only be well implemented after we get those datatypes and Wiktionary items. --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:04, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

The Label for the item will have lots of different versions of the subjects name. The "name" property, visible to all languages, will have the name that the subject uses her or himself. Pronunciation is a qualifier. If you want to propose a suitable qualifier property then that is a separate issue. Many Irish people have two versions of their name - one in English and one in Irish. After a long guerrilla war on english wikipedia it has been decided that it is not acceptable to give an Irish version of a Template:Q players name unless you have a reference that shows she or he uses that form her or him self. If he or she does use an Irish name and an English name then he or she should get two values for the "name" property. Thats how I see it being used. I can't think of another way of doing it. Filceolaire (talk) 15:38, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Would it not help if we used mulilang datatype? To me, it looks like it would at the same time solve the transcription-problem for example Brūss Springstīns. A qualifier can tell what langaguage is the original.

Template:Q

Name (multilang datatype): Bruce Springsteen (en)/Bruce Springsteen (de) etc/ Brūss Springstīns (lv)/બ્રુસ સ્પ્રિન્ગસ્ટીન (gu)/ Брус Спрингстин (mk)/Բրյուս Սպրինգստին (hy)

Original languagecode: en

-- Lavallen^talk(block) 16:58, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

You need a source to confirm that he uses the name "Brūss Springstīns" which means you can't use multilingual datatype because that has one source for the statement; not a source for each language. I feel these alternative names belong in the Label, not in the "name" property. Filceolaire (talk) 00:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Maybe so, but it looks like multilang datatype would solve the transcription-problem. -- Lavallen^talk(block) 06:47, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Then we need a 'Transcription' property with Multilang datatype to show what the name looks like in other languages. We still need the 'Name' property to show what the name - as used by the subject - looks like. Have I convinced you to support? Filceolaire (talk) 00:48, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

You have my Template:Support, but I think this is needed in any person-related item. Even if the article would have a label like "Marshall Bruce Mathers III" in "my" language, I cannot give any guarantees about any other langauge. If we found out that another datatype is better, we can change that in the future. -- Lavallen^talk(block) 12:26, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Multilang is (I believe) like Label - you can only see your own language, encouraging people to invent their own language version of the name which have equal status with the original. That is original research which we should not encourage. Filceolaire (talk) 03:21, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 15:17, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

coordinates of burial place (en) / координаты могилы (ru)/ مختصات محل دفن (fa)

Discussion

See this Wikidata:Requests for comment/Geocoordinates on people Amir (talk) 13:28, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 16:55, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Comment could use Template:P - Template:Q with qualifier Template:P Filceolaire (talk) 08:29, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Oppose --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:40, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Oppose We have Template:P which can link to an item. This item can have geocoordinates once and for all people burried in this place. If there is no cemetery or other item to link to, I think a qualifier to Template:P will do the job as well. Different burrial places are also better handled with date/time qualifiers to Template:P--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 11:57, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
• Template:S Coordinates of burial (tomb) are more precise that just places of burial (cemetery or city). Providing data for a map of burials of notable people in a certain cemetery is clearly within project scope.--Pere prlpz (talk) 14:32, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
  • The main problem ist to link a person with coordinates. People are not a geographical item. You should link only places or buildings with coordinates. As it is said you can ad several qualifiers of Template:P or even several instances e.g. one with the cemetery and an additional with the coordinates of the grave. If necessary you can also link place of death with coordinates (e. g. coordinates of an accident or the last adress), no extra property needed. On the other hand: You take the object of the cemetery and click "what links here" and viola: you have all the people which are burried on this cemetery. Very usefull if you want to create a map. The coordinates of burrial place belong to the burial place (as is suggested by the name) therefore it is a property of burrial place, not of a person, no matter how dead allready.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 19:48, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Oppose This a bad example of mixed data: coordinates have to be used for place not for persons. Wikidata items aren't wikipedia article with all information displayed in the same page but a global structure where data are stored in a specific way and can be extracted to create particular displays in the client side. Snipre (talk) 12:30, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

  A person that is buried won't go anywhere anytime soon :D Why can't we treat them as a fixed object?Amir (talk) 03:04, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

  I don't understand why being fixed or not is relevant, or why not being a fixed object could be an issue. We have date qualifiers for time-based things. --Yair rand (talk) 13:24, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

  Thats not true. In Germany the bones will be removed after about 25 to 30 years if the relatives don´t object or the grave will be reused after some more time. The location of the bones is unknow after that, but the location of the grave or the cemetery will remain. Of many important persons there is only a gravestone leftover thats placed at the walls of a building or at the cemetery walls.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 07:12, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

  @Amir No, because bones can be moved so they can't be considered as building. and the problem is not how we consider things but the problem is related on how we will used data in wikipedia: we can't develop templates for each particular case. Snipre (talk) 09:36, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

  Why would coordinates need to not be used for people as well? --Yair rand (talk) 13:24, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose - Creating separate grave-items would be much better. This would also allow to add other statements like Template:P, Template:P or even Template:P (for tombstone or coffin) for the grave. --Nightwish62 (talk) 21:44, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
  • This way seems rather logical, but we will need a new item for each tomb with a notable body inside. This will mean an item for every person item with known tomb location, and such items will be used only once. Won't this be a problem? It seems simpler to keep coordinates of a one person tomb with this person item, instead of having a different item for each person's tomb. Isn't it?--Pere prlpz (talk) 16:43, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
  • "Creating separate grave-items would be much better" .. hm .. we had an item for a cemetery (Q8086145) deleted. --  Docu  at 17:56, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
• Template:S — per "resting_place_coordinates" in many en.Wikipeida infoboxes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:24, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Template:Comment I would assume that those are simply the co-ordinates of the burial site i.e. "XYZ Cemetery". Therefore the info box could just look at the properties of the item given as burial location. Macadamia1472 (talk) 05:01, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
    • On the contrary, and per the templates' documentation, a value is only entered when it is for the specific gravesite. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:05, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Oppose per Nightwish62. If the body is notable enough and an inscription and an image of the tomb is available, it's okay to create a new item. --Pasleim (talk) 19:23, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done No consensus.--Micru (talk) 15:19, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Template:Comment I cannot find anything at present to cover the gender identity of transgender or transsexual people. This would leave P21 (sex) for the biological sex, as is currently the case with Q298423. Both data items, sex and gender identity, would be different but true and should be recorded in some way. Two properties should allow for recording complete data. It should follow the same usage restriction as P91 (sexual orientation). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 21:16, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The main property should be the gender identity as stated by the person themself with date qualifier if this changed during their life. Once we have ranking for multiple values for a property the current gender identity should be returned when the item is queried for it's sex. Biological sex should be a secondary property, only used if it is known to be different from sex. Remember that, while we know that Chelsea Manning is biologically male today we may never know the exact time she has an operation to change that. We do, however, know when she chose to transition her gender identity.

Rename this proposal as 'Biological sex'.

Add 'gender identity' as an alias of 'Template:P'. Filceolaire (talk) 02:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not very knowledgeable about this topic, but is your proposal feasible for, say, people who are very young? Does a one-year-old even have a "gender identity"? --Yair rand (talk) 03:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Mostly they get assigned one by their parents, based on the appearance of the child's genitalia. This is expressed through the clothes the parents buy for the child. There seem to be very few cases where the parents don't do this, even where the genitalia could be considered ambiguous. Parents in general don't discuss this much in public. Filceolaire (talk) 08:19, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Template:P has "gender" as an alias. Shouldn't we just use time qualifiers for p21 instead of this proposal. If this property is used, it would imply that p21 is chromosomal, hormonal, phenotypical and I'm not sure we could even source something like that. More complicated cases would be people with Template:Q. It somehow feels like any changes and additions to p21 would be RfC material. --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:14, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Support Seems simple enough. I suggest something like claimed gender, the gender the person has claimed to be, along with the date the claim was made. Danrok (talk) 14:26, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I would say that Template:P is their sex as determined by law, stated on official documents, etc. which can be changed in some countries after a sex change. Biological sex is not always so clear, some people may well have been literally born in the wrong body according to some studies. Danrok (talk) 14:31, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose. I have been thinking about it some more and I think Template:P should be used for all of these with a qualifier to identify which type of sexual identity P21 is referring to. So:

Chelsea Manning

sex : Male

instance of  : Legal sexual identity

sex : female

instance of : gender identity

from : August 2013

If they are all values of Template:P then we will be able to identify one of them as the preferred value once Ranking is available. Filceolaire (talk) 17:56, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment that seems workable to me. But, not sure that rank is needed (and is potentially subjective). On the legal side, a person can legally change their sex (in some places). That can already be solved using date qualifiers. Their legal sex remains exactly that, regardless of any ranking system. In general, all we need to do, is simply state it as it is, and let users of the data, use it as they see fit. Danrok (talk) 19:39, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment In the case of Chelsea Manning. Manning has asked to be referred to as she. Potentially, that situation can be simply solved using a property called third-person, personal pronoun where we would indicate he and/or she. So, we can then state this person is legally male, but should be referred to as she starting on this date. This problem doesn't even exist in some languages. Danrok (talk) 20:16, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Personal pronoun is more complicated than gender identity. Gender identity, if sourced, is a fact. Personal pronoun is a combination of sexual identity as perceived by speaker and grammar. Keep in mind that while some languages have two different third person pronouns for male and female, other ones even don't have grammatical genders or have a set of pronouns to be chosen on grounds rather different than social gender. Therefore using a gender orientation property is simpler and more useful than using a personal pronoun property.--Pere prlpz (talk) 15:44, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

I think we should use Template:P wit additional time qualifiers. P21 with male and date of end and P21 with female and date of beginning or vice versa. The date must be the official date of change. Everyhing else is speculation. We also can not take care if a woman feels to be male or vice versa and the preference of reference. We must stick to hard facts.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 19:52, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Preference and social behavior is a fact (when sourced).--Pere prlpz (talk) 16:37, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

If you haven't inspected the genitalia and the chromosomes then you don't have hard facts; just what the person has told you. In some cases genitalia are ambiguous or don't agree with the chromosomes; even checking these doesn't help resolve ambiguity. Personal preference is at least usually clear and unambiguous. Filceolaire (talk) 19:39, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Relevant Information: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Manning_naming_dispute Macadamia1472 (talk) 06:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Consensus not reached.--Micru (talk) 10:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

The ratio of this proposal is the same as Scrum ID, Premiership ID and the above's. Having a unique identifier to share with every Wikimedia linguistic chapter. Blackcat (talk) 12:58, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:O This relates to the web site of a single sports team. Let's not dissect 100,000+ team web sites. Danrok (talk) 19:33, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

  Yes I understand the principle, but this is an unicum not to be replicated for any other team. The All Blacks too have an International number ID. -- Blackcat (talk) 18:46, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Why is this needed? Danrok (talk) 07:51, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S I personally don't see the harm that this could do, though it doesn't seem incredibly useful. Maybe someone would want a list of these someday, or to organize them, thus making it potentially useful. Ajraddatz (Talk) 21:41, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Useful for what? And, why do you feel it is a good idea to support a proposal based on I "don't see the harm"? Danrok (talk) 07:56, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment. Better to have a generic 'ID' property with an 'instance of:British Lions ID'; 'URL:www.lionsrugby.com' qualifiers. Filceolaire (talk) 23:46, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:P is for source references. But, I agree a single solution for all team web sites would be far better than creating a vast number of properties. Although, how we would maintain that I don't know. The IDs can change at any time, they're not set in stone. Danrok (talk) 23:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Website layout and directory structure have changed through the years (see Alan Ashcroft in 2011 and today), but the ID hasn't changed ever since. -- Blackcat (talk) 09:40, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus. A more generic approach needed.--Micru (talk) 15:22, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Commander

Template:Comment Can't we use "office held" property ? Snipre (talk) 09:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

'Office held' is a property for a person. This is a property for an organisation.

Rename this as 'senior officer' so it can be used as the reverse of the 'office held' property.

• 'Mohammad Dawran' office held 'commander'. Qualifier - 'organisation' 'Afghan Air Force'.
• 'Afghan Air Force' senior officer 'Mohammad Dawran'. Qualifier - 'instance of' 'commander'.

This can then be used for companies and other organisations too except that there the qualifier will be 'instance of' 'CEO', 'Company Secretary' etc. Filceolaire (talk) 15:50, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment The proposal is for a property for use in organization items, to indicate a commander of the item. Danrok (talk) 13:48, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment 'Senior Officer' is not necessarily equivalent to 'Commander', as there are cases where the person in command of a unit or operation was not the most senior officer present. 'Commanding Officer' is a commonly used term and well understood to clarify that distinction, but it does not cover situations where a person in command of a group or action (a revolutionary group, for example) is not an officer at all, but still very much in charge. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 20:48, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support.--Micru (talk) 10:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Position title (en)

Template:Comment Recommend re-name to 'position title' and use as a qualifier for any position where official title can vary organization to organization. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 03:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

We have office hold. I know that the property name refers to political positions but this an english naming problem because in other languages this prperty can be used for other positions like bishop, pope, CEO,... Snipre (talk) 09:12, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, 'office held' should work just fine...unless I am missing something. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 13:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Is there a property to specify what position a player has on the team (Quarterback, goalkeeper, silly mid off (cricket), hooker (rugby), anchor (relay racing))? Filceolaire (talk) 15:38, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment if Template:P is to be used, then it may need to be re-purposed. Currently in English it is described as a public office, chairman of a sports club wouldn't normally be a public office. Danrok (talk) 22:05, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment What about using 'instance of' i.e. <tim cook> instance of <ceo> {of: apple inc.} Macadamia1472 (talk) 07:31, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support.--Micru (talk) 10:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Continental confederation (en)

Template:Support directly used by the infobox parameter. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 04:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose. I think Template:P or Template:P will do this. Infobox will need to check if the organisation it is a member of is an instance of a continental confederation. Filceolaire (talk) 11:42, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose as per Filceolaire (and the description given contains the word member). Danrok (talk) 13:43, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 15:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Sub continental confederation (en)

Template:Support directly used by the infobox parameter. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 04:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose See comment on Continental Conference above. Filceolaire (talk) 11:43, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose in preference of using the existing member of property. Danrok (talk) 13:44, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 15:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Properties that could be used for any sport

conference

Discussion

Most sports teams play in a specific conference, so this property would help to sort the teams into their respective conferences. TCN7JM 02:46, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Can you propose an international concept ? I don't know if it is possible, but it would good if you can be sure that the proposed concept doesn't cover other organisations. Snipre (talk) 09:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Question Can you explain why this can't be handled by some combination of existing properties: part of, member of, league, and affiliations? It seems that 'league' would take care of the bigger membership, and 'affiliations' could cover sub-divisions under the league level. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 13:49, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Internationalizing it is the tough question, but at the same time the association football (soccer) property proposals are generous in allowing confederation, separately sub-confederation, and so forth. So I'm inclined to have one "top-level" league property and one "sub-level" property to subsume all levels of subdivision. But part of the question is: what terminology to use? "Conference" is used differently in professional sports and in university sports.

The most natural way with respect to how people discuss these things is (I think):

• If "|league=" exists, it becomes the top-level property ("League"). Then any other such item, like "|conference=" or "|division=" would go to the sub-level property ("Division").
• If "|league=" does not exist, "|conference=" becomes the top-level property ("League"), and other items go into the sub-level property ("Division").

But maybe that is more complicated than this is allowed to get. Maybe one simply has a hierarchy of "League", "League first sub-level", "League further sub-levels", and everyone just has to conform to that. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:56, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Most sports I know of have three levels. Putting "|conference=" and "|division=" into one level doesn't make much hierarchical sense. TCN7JM 16:21, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I think this three-levels thing is somewhat more a North American approach than a rest-of-world approach. That said, I won't argue that having conference and division conflated is a good idea.

But still I wonder if we shouldn't genericize this to "League", "League first sub-level", "League second sub-level", or some-such. The term conference, again, is especially tricky. In NFL and NBA, that term refers to the leagues' first sub-level. In collegiate sports, the term is usually the actual "League", if you will. So is the property Conference sometimes the top-level organization and sometimes the second-level organization? And I don't think that word is used for this purpose very much outside of North America. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:02, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree, the terms should be more generic. TCN7JM 22:27, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Swedish soccer has ten levels. See Q7654680. -- Lavallen (block) 14:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

For this purpose, that's not what it means. (I guess we need a word other than "level" or "sublevel", which have a specific meaning in a number of international sports.) If we were talking about Swedish Division 8, we would be talking about:

• League = Swedish Division 8
• Sublevel 1 = Uppland norra (and each of the others)

(Alternatively, you could simply take Uppland norra and the rest as being leagues, but that's a different discussion.)

StevenJ81 (talk) 17:31, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S yes, this is a good idea. AutomaticStrikeout 18:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Question Are we agreed that for both this one ("conference") and the following one ("division") (a) there should be some property and (b) it should be named more generically? If so, then let's close these out and restart. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:29, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I would have thought that all hierarchical trees can be defined using subclass of and instance of. Danrok (talk) 15:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure how those would work here. Maybe if it were something like "is in the subclass" or something similar, but it would be even more of a cluster for sports teams that are in more than one subdivision or in a subdivision of a subdivision. For example, my favorite team, the Minnesota Twins are in Major League Baseball, more specifically the American League, more specifically the Central Division. How would I portray that on the Twins' item? I'm not sure "subclass of" would work well enough. TCN7JM 18:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

"is in the subclass" is claimed by instance of. So, for Minnesota Twins it could be an instance of American League Central which is a subclass of American League which is part of Major League Baseball. (or something along those lines, I'm not a basketball expert) Danrok (talk) 17:10, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

It's baseball, lol. Anyway, it is not an instance of the American League Central, it's an instance of a team within. We would need an entirely different qualifier for this. TCN7JM 19:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Danrok, at a certain level, I take your point, and I appreciate that we don't want to promote infinite property inflation, so to speak. That said, in some respects having "realm-specific" "subclass" properties makes sense in cases where they will be used quite a lot, as they will in this case. There is a trade-off between compactness and usability, but I would venture that your average Wikipedia sports editor will have an easier time using something that looks like a sports property than wondering if s/he can make a generic property fit properly.

Additionally, as TCN, Strikeout and others have pointed out, one really needs at least two levels below "league" to cover the ground sufficiently. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:23, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Update as of 14:59, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Question Are we agreed that in principle it is appropriate to create a property or properties (probably two in total) representing divisions of leagues into conferences, divisions, groups, etc.? Let's just do a check-off on the concept; we can easily name the property(ies) afterwards. I'll start: StevenJ81 (talk) 14:59, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
• Template:S StevenJ81 (talk) 14:59, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Comment First start to build a table with the different levels of different sports from different countries then it will be more easy to define the best general system. Snipre (talk) 18:58, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

  I can try. TCN7JM 00:13, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose See comment on Continental Conference above. Filceolaire (talk) 11:47, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done As per comments needs better structure.--Micru (talk) 10:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

division

Discussion

Lots of sports teams also play in a certain division, which is usually a subdivision of a conference. This property would help to sort teams into their respective divisions. TCN7JM 02:46, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Question Can you explain why this can't be handled by some combination of existing properties: part of, member of, league, and affiliations? It seems that 'league' would take care of the bigger membership, and 'affiliations' could cover sub-divisions under the league level, and I am concerned about having a bunch of 'division', 'conference', 'federation', 'region', etc. props for sports teams, because different sports and countries have different names and hierarchies for these terms. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 13:51, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

See discussion of "conference" just above. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S seems pretty helpful to me. AutomaticStrikeout 18:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Question See discussion of "conference" just above. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Update as of 14:59, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

See above under "conference". StevenJ81 (talk) 14:59, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done As per comments needs better structure.--Micru (talk) 10:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

More kinds of web page

Is it generally desirable to have more kinds of Template:P. Like:

1. Official weblog/Official microblog:
   Some People/Projects/Companies have an official weblog beside their webpage
2. Fan Page:
   Some musical artists have fanpages which can be a useful resource.
3. Twitter account/twitter username:
   Should maybe be a string instead. Template:P/Template:P
4. Facebook page/facebook page ID:
   Should maybe be a string instead. More and more companies publish their content on facebook which I personally think is a bad development. should wikidata support commercial services like facebook or twitter? we don't even support amazon by collection their ASIN standard. On the other hand we support Template:P Template:P/Template:P
5. Youtube channel
   see 4. Template:P/Template:P
6. App.net account
   see 4. Template:P/Template:P
7. ...
   there is an infinite number of widely spread services. where to draw the line? Template:P/Template:P

What do you think? --Shisma (talk) 11:54, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

We already have Template:P and the associated Template:P, which cover most of these. --Yair rand (talk) 13:31, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

awesome. thanks^^ --Shisma (talk) 18:07, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Note that we also have Template:P which can be used to link the item to its official media (audio and/or video). Obviously, we should only link to legally hosted media which is generally always found at that address. --Danrok (talk) 13:13, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

{Oppose}. Use a qualifier to explain what type of website or social media it is. Template:P would work. This will mean that info boxes and queries just have to query for the main property and are sure to get the info rather than having to guess which property has been used for the website of a particular item. Filceolaire (talk) 17:26, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Quite similar to Template:P. but instead for humans its especially good for computers (and developers). feeds are a machine readable and platform independent source for news regarding to an item--Shisma (talk) 23:04, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment A website can have 100's of RSS feeds, who is to say which is an "official feed"? What is an "official feed"? --Danrok (talk) 18:47, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

okay, lets maybe strike out the word official --Shisma (talk) 10:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:S. Use a qualifier to say what type of feed it is. Filceolaire (talk) 17:28, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:S --Micru (talk) 12:35, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivation. Jared Zimmerman (talk) 23:36, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

• I think the property you are suggesting is equivalent to this one: Template:P. The symmetric property also exists: Template:P.--Micru (talk) 12:33, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
• We should change Template:P then its isn't grammatically correct and is therefore confusing, if I add the property Template:P it appears that the parent item is a subsidiary of the items listed in that property, I'd reccomend we change the label to "subsidiaries," "subsidiary entities," or the original suggestion "Parent company of" with the aka, "subsidiaries"
  

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 22:09, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

• In my opinion it is consistent with how other properties are named. I would recommend you to take a look to the property list to get familiar with the naming conventions and if you feel like then you can propose a name change on the property talk page. --Micru (talk) 22:26, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Redundant with Template:P.--Micru (talk) 22:26, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

You disagreeing with me and implying I don't understand the naming convention of properties hardly seems like a consensus decision…Jared Zimmerman (talk) 22:41, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean? This page is for discussing the creation of new properties, the "not done" refers to the creation of a new property as per your proposal (it cannot be done because it already exists). If you think that an existing property should be renamed then the place to discuss that is on the property page.--Micru (talk) 00:00, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Micru for clearing that up, I think i understand, I've started the conversation about the rename on the property discussion page. If it does not get any feedback, how long does convention say I should wait before making the change?

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 09:40, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Jared If you want to draw attention to the conversation you can ask for comments on the project chat or directly to the people who are using it.--Micru (talk) 11:14, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Micru thanks, how do I know who is using it?

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 15:22, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Jared On the property page you click on "what links here", then you can go to each item and find in the history of the item who added the property.--Micru (talk) 16:22, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

UK company no. (en)

Discussion

Template:Comment having this in place allows us to identify the SIC 2007 code for a company. A potential new property.

The SIC codes for British Airways:

• 51101 - Scheduled passenger air transport
• 51102 - Non-scheduled passenger air transport
• 52230 - Service activities incidental to air transportation
• 52242 - Cargo handling for air transport activities

--Danrok (talk) 05:09, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment direct linking to the CH web site isn't possible, but the value could be linked to another web site, e.g. www.duedil.com/company/01777777/. Danrok (talk) 05:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

The previous proposal should complete this. --  Docu  at 18:03, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support.--Micru (talk) 10:50, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

ballots cast

Template:Info This property is for use by any election to show the total number of ballots cast regardless of who votes were tallied for, and including ballots where no candidate was selected, but limited to ballots officially accepted by elections authorities. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 05:10, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ballot is the word for the election voting process. Votes are cast, not ballots. Danrok (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose A task force needs to come up with a set of properties for recording election results. Until that is done I don't think we should create or approve any of these properties. Filceolaire (talk) 19:57, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment This could apply to most any of the proposals in the Property proposal pages. There is no reason we can't move forward with some basics in lieu of a task force putting some more directed effort into it. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 04:33, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment We would need to be careful saying "<United States presidential election> votes cast <538> because this would confuse some people who don't understand the electoral college Macadamia1472 (talk) 07:34, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Answer I think we need to be clear about what the data we are storing is (qualifiers can help), but Wikidata is not here to interpret and elaborate on the data. Statistics and data are never useful in isolation, they require context and analysis to accurately provide a good picture of things. However, those are outside of the scope of Wikidata, and it would be up to the user Wiki editors to provide the prose to ensure that the reader ultimately has a good picture of the election. Clearly, no article on the US presidential election would be complete without clearing up the whole Electoral vs. Popular vote thing. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 04:33, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose, per Filceolaire. Which properties to use for elections needs to be thought out thoroughly before implementing bits of it. --Yair rand (talk) 05:03, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 15:46, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Reoccurring date in machine readable format

This can complete the proposal #day_in_year_for_periodic_occurrence above. --  Docu  at 20:50, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:S I wonder if it would be possible to have an applet to generate these strings. --Micru (talk) 12:32, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

.. and generate an output for the current year? --  Docu  at 19:37, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

If we add this property to the items for recurring dates (April 19, first tuesday in may, Easter sunday) then maybe users just need to refer to these items and the software can fetch the property from the item. Maybe. Filceolaire (talk) 22:20, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support.--Micru (talk) 10:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Frequency of (re)-occurrence

Added the template above, one might want to propose/support it. --  Docu  at 11:16, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support.--Micru (talk) 10:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Is something really simple and basic that I haven't found in available properties. I don't know why nobody has proposed it before. It would be useful for all progresive events, like historic ones, that start in one place but reach other places (wars, revolutions, marchs). It would be used for intelectual movements, natural fenomena in movement (hurricanes, pandemic, migrations), and so forth. Also, it could be possible create the opposite property: final place. Salvador alc (talk) 20:18, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Seems to me that this information can already be determined via existing properties, by selecting the parts of an item and examining the dates to find the first event, then you have the event location. This is demonstrated here: Wikidata tempo-spatial display See The Franco-Prussian War example. It may not work correctly at present due to incomplete data. --Danrok (talk) 15:09, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment If one presumes that the first event listed for an item is the start point of the item, then you would be returning an erroneous start point if the actual starting point wasn't listed for the item. Thus it seems valuable to have a distinct property to call out the start point/place, so that when that data is queried, it is clear first whether or not a statement regarding a start point has been made, and if so, ensure that the correct start point is returned, versus a potentially erroneous return based off of an incomplete list of dates. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 11:20, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Support per nomination. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 11:20, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose How can a war (abstract concept) have a single start place? And exactly who can make that claim? Same applies to historical eras, many do not even have start dates let alone start places. Look at the WWI article and the text "world war is generally said to have begun on 1 September 1939", the words "generally said" provide a hint here, it is not data, just an opinion held by some. --Danrok (talk) 17:07, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose I think multiple properties i.e. formation site for hurricanes etc, location of first ____(battle?) for wars etc. Macadamia1472 (talk) 07:00, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

We already have the first battle of a war covered with existing properties. Example: Template:Q. The date and location is there. --Danrok (talk) 23:42, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Here's one possible way to claim the start of a tropical cyclone: Template:Q, using Template:P with Template:P as a qualifier. But, that's probably best discussed on Wikidata:Tropical_cyclones_task_force. --Danrok (talk) 23:52, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 15:48, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

controlled place name

Discussion

This is part of an on-going work to add data from the Norwegian Sentralt Stedsnavnregister to Wikidata. The property proposal Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/11#Short_name is very similar to this, but describes a short official name. Jeblad (talk) 15:14, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Also useful for Hungary : eg. for the town Template:Q, the Hungarian Statistical Office gives the values Mohač and Mohatsch as Nemzetiségi név "nationality/minority name" (name in the language of a minority), determined by the corresponding Template:Q and officially used for instance on place name signs. Data for Hungary from this source and another source are being discussed in French here. Oliv0 (talk) 11:24, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

How is this different from the pending property Official Name? Filceolaire (talk) 12:09, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

No difference for me, I have asked the proponent, Jeblad for his opinion. Oliv0 (talk) 06:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Both are okay in the case of towns in Hungary, although "official name" is generally a bad idea. Ljubinka (discussion) 11:54, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

A named place can have several names, and some of them can have an additional qualifier that they are officially accepted and when they was accepted. A controlled place name is a name that is handled by some official body, it is not necessary official in itself. An "official name" as I see it is a type of controlled place name, that is some official body must make a claim that the name is in fact officially accepted. Jeblad (talk) 17:23, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose Use 'Official name' with qualifier 'authority' => 'SSN' or 'Hungarian Statistical Office'. Filceolaire (talk) 15:04, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose per Filceolaire --Pasleim (talk) 18:03, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 15:49, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

CEP code

Discussion

Brazil uses a specific type of postal code system, which warrants its own property. Pikolas (talk) 06:03, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose Create an unique property for all postal codes of all countries. Snipre (talk) 11:33, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Why you can't use the Template:P property, which allows the usage of country specific formatting? --A.Bernhard (talk) 16:42, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

• ... and use a qualifier to link to CEP so I Template:Oppose this property. Macadamia1472 (talk) 08:53, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose use P281 --Pasleim (talk) 18:54, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Redundant with Template:P.--Micru (talk) 15:50, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Numeric code for Swiss cantons

Added the template above. --  Docu  at 08:56, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment What is this code ? Where is it used ? Which organization or administration is responsible for it ? Please provide some information when proposing a property. Snipre (talk) 10:00, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, I generally do and most of the time users of these properties seem satisfied. If you don't intend to use properties, I suppose it might be a bit more difficult, but one doesn't need to feel compelled to comment on properties for fields one wont ever be active in.

To answer your question: the sample is from the main numeric code used for cantons. It seems to be derived from the way cantons are listed in the constitution and, as such, it rarely changes. --  Docu  at 09:29, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure. In Switzerland we got the BFS-Nr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Identification_Number#Switzerland) and the cantons do also have such a number, described here. One for statistical purpose and one for other things. So there's a property here in Wikidata which is called Template:P. Isn't it just the same? --A.Bernhard (talk) 18:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Okay I checked it, you said 10 is for Fribourg and that's exactly the same number as the Statistik Schweiz has published here. So I think it's really the Template:P. --A.Bernhard (talk) 18:07, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I think they use different identifiers for different levels, similar as the Swedish ones. --  Docu  at 05:43, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

@Docu. Please provide information: main numeric code used for cantons. What is this "main numeric code" ? I am swiss and I never heard about that code so I just want to know what is your source. Swiss people use abbreviation for canton no number so if this code exists it is very confidential and instead of using a code used in some technical documents I will propose to mention the abbreviation of each canton which are widely used. Snipre (talk) 19:51, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

If you propose a property for the abbreviation, I'd support it. --  Docu  at 05:43, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

The number for each canton discussed here is simply a rank (="Rang einer Reihenfolge") derived from some ordering of all the 26 cantons. Whenever you see a list of all 26 cantons of Switzerland, it might be ordered this way: The first 3 cantons are the three large cities who joined the confederation in the early years; the other 23 cantons are ordered by their year when the joined to Switzerland (Confederatio Helvetica), see also [5]. Since some cantons joined in the same year, it is a little more tricky to remember the right order. --Zuphilip (talk) 10:25, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Checking various language versions of Wikipedia, the same seems to be listed at de:Gemeindenummer#Nummernbereiche. --  Docu  at 19:27, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose The numeric code for Swiss cantons isn't unique and not common used except of the Bundesamt für Statistik. We also got Template:P to define official abbreviations for swiss cantons and Template:P. --A.Bernhard (talk) 16:47, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:S Template:P for canton abbreviation. Snipre (talk) 18:25, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Use Template:P instead.--Micru (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done I guess it was done some time ago, see http://208.80.153.172/api?q=claim[132:23058]%20AND%20claim[300]&props=300. --Zuphilip (talk) 18:04, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Power / Мощность энергетической установки

Есть некоторая сложность с тем, что указывать, максимальную мощность, среднюю, в конце срока эксплуатации и т. д. Хотя в части источников (например, на сайте НАСА), всё равно не указывают что конкретно имеется в виду. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 19:20, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose -- without some English text provided, I unfortunately cannot even tell what this parameter is supposed to be. Also, if it is some sort of "nominal" or "designed" power generation (solar? or other?) for a spacecraft, we should make clear in the data that it is merely a snapshot, valid on a particular date, or, say, at the beginning of a spacecraft's operational life. N2e (talk) 02:32, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Description not clarified.--Micru (talk) 11:12, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Crew size / Число членов экипажа

Template:Comment I added the en-infobox field above. --  Docu  at 10:05, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

• I support that this can be used, but I prefer a more general domain and name, maybe number of participants. Byrial (talk) 08:22, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose Imho I prefer add a statement to every member of the crew and find this number with a query (when they will be available). --Paperoastro (talk) 13:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

It is not difficult? For example, "expeditions" have several crew members who rotate, and also the Soyuz. We must find a good system to manage the crews of missions. --Adert (talk) 21:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done As per comments it needs different approach.--Micru (talk) 11:12, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Asteroids have two different spectral classifications, in most cases they are coincident, but some other not. This property, used as qualifier, is used to distinguish them. --Paperoastro (talk) 08:51, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Support. --Art-top (talk) 14:16, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Done --Paperoastro (talk) 22:00, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Right ascension (en)

Discussion

• Template:Comment probably astronomical coordinate could be supported as coordinate datatype, but I do not know when this feature will be implemented. --Paperoastro (talk) 18:31, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Comment We have coordinate datatype ans coordinates for features on the mooon, mars and various other globes have been added but not coordinates on the celestial globe. I'm not sure why. Filceolaire (talk) 00:41, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

• see this discussion. --Paperoastro (talk) 18:08, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done It won't be necessary when Template:Bugzilla is fixed.--Micru (talk) 16:10, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Declination (en)

Discussion

• Template:Comment see my comment in the proposal of right ascension property. --Paperoastro (talk) 18:34, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• see this discussion. --Paperoastro (talk) 18:08, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done It won't be necessary when Template:Bugzilla is fixed.--Micru (talk) 16:09, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Type (nomenclatural type / name-bearing type)

Discussion

• Biology: There is also a "symbiotype" which is the host in which a parasite was first described? Do we need more properties for such connections?
• Note that in zoology, it is allowed (although not encouraged) to have multiple type specimens (syntypes), together consitituting a type. - Brya (talk) 05:10, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Comment. "Type" could be used for all kinds of things. I think you should change the name back to "Type specimen". Filceolaire (talk) 14:43, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

  What would happen then to all the types that are not type specimens? Separate items? - Brya (talk) 17:33, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Most 'type's would be Template:P. If that doesn't work then we need to consider a new property. Filceolaire (talk) 00:17, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

• We have allready Template:P. --Succu (talk) 17:46, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

  You are right. - Brya (talk) 16:28, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

  Actually, Template:P refers to a taxon name, while what is proposed here refers to a specimen, illustration, etc. A genus could have both a 'type species' and a type specimen. - Brya (talk) 10:42, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Contra Use Template:P. Add qualifiers as for example Template:P type species, Template:P type genus, Template:P paratype, Template:P holotype, and so on to specify the class of the type. This works even for the type locality: Template:Q: Template:P=Template:Q (Template:P Template:Q). For all other examples of this proposal (NWA 7034 and File:AgriasPhlacidonBertradiF2.JPG), the datatype does not fit.  — Felix Reimann (talk) 11:29, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

  This may be possible, but likely this could get very complicated. It is dubious if there would be many users who could fill in these fields correctly. It would also be hard to read it out correctly into, say, a taxobox. It may not be practical. - Brya (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose A property called 'type' will get (ab)used for all sorts of things. Use Template:P instead with qualifiers. Filceolaire (talk) 23:20, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Consensus not reached. --Micru (talk) 11:29, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivation. GZWDer (talk) 14:20, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

This property already exists: see Template:P. Snipre (talk) 20:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Closed.--GZWDer (talk) 14:32, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

afflicts organ or tissue / (fr) organe(s) concerné(s)

Discussion

Template:Comment - do we still need this, or is Template:P sufficient? --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:25, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose use Template:P Snipre (talk) 09:57, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Probably better to have two distinct properties; afflicts organ and afflicts organism (rename afflicts accordingly), so support. --WS (talk) 14:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:O - user Template:P and a qualifier for the organ. --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 14:28, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Redundant with Template:P.--Micru (talk) 16:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Facsimile

Discussion

This is maybe useful also for Wikisource. -- Lavallen (talk) 15:34, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:S Indeed useful. About the name I would call it "scan file" because "facsimiles" tend to be physical copies.--Micru (talk) 20:29, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree, a facsimile would normally be an almost exact copy of the original. --Danrok (talk) 13:56, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

These property could be usefull for all Wikivoyage and may be more.. Otourly (talk) 17:16, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:S, but I am not sure URL is the right datatype. Maybe string would do better? -- Lavallen (talk) 17:32, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes you're right. Otourly (talk) 17:38, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Native name

• This seems like it would be more in Wiktionary's domain. --Yair rand (talk) 04:14, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Support not just for languages, but for all applicable items. --putnik 18:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Found that we already have Template:P. I think it will be better to extend it. --putnik 19:06, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done As per comment.--Micru (talk) 11:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Spoken in

Template:Property proposal Can cover historical extent with qualifiers. KleptomaniacViolet (talk) 16:40, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Question: would this be de facto or de jure? --Pikolas (talk) 03:10, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

It should be de facto: if there is a speaker community somewhere, it should be listed. De jure would use the proposed 'recognised in' property below. I guess there's a bit of overlap here with the 'Number of speakers' proposal. Maybe both could be rolled together, upon consideration... KleptomaniacViolet (talk) 15:15, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Support This sounds like a useful property. I agree with KleptomaniacViolet that it should be de facto. --DSGalaktos (talk) 11:44, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Oppose. Having a simple binary "spoken in" option does not sound like it would be informative. How many speakers are necessary for a place to qualify? Far more useful would simply be to use "number of speakers" (property proposed below) instead. --Yair rand (talk) 03:49, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Weak oppose I think countries/regions where it is spoken in is not precise. I would support a list of countries where it is official (de jure) language. Macadamia1472 (talk) 08:05, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

  We already have Template:P. --Yair rand (talk) 15:24, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking consensus.--Micru (talk) 11:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Date of extinction

Template:Property proposal Qualifiers can distinguish between a cessation of natural use (e.g., where a language carries on in liturgical use despite having no native speakers), and also geographical extent of the extinction. KleptomaniacViolet (talk) 16:40, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

See if you can use Template:P instead of a new property. And in that case you can propose two dates: the extinction date but the development period of a language too. Snipre (talk) 09:07, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support/consensus.--Micru (talk) 11:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Recognised in

Template:Property proposal Qualifiers for the precise level of recognition (minority, regional, national official, etc) and dates of recognition/derecognition. KleptomaniacViolet (talk) 16:40, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

• What data could this be useful for that Template:P would not? --Yair rand (talk) 03:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support.--Micru (talk) 11:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

language regulatory body

• Template:S Pikolas (talk) 03:19, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Comment any reason why it would be limited to languages only. How about a regulator property which can be used to indicate the organization with responsibility for regulating the subject item? E.g. the authority which regulates a given bank. Danrok (talk) 22:06, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Possibly. There's a qualitative difference between the 'regulator' of a language and a banking regulator, in that a language regulator doesn't have power over the language itself (it may have power over some users of the language, e.g. prescribing the form used in official government documents), but a banking regulator will have power over the general dealing of banks. It might be possible to unify these senses with a qualifier, but I think they're probably different enough that two separate 'regulator of institutions'/'language regulator' properties can be justified. KleptomaniacViolet (talk) 13:28, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree. --Yair rand (talk) 04:15, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S I have changed the property name to make it more specific.--Micru (talk) 13:24, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Done --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 14:21, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Color (en) / Farbe (de)

Discussion

This is my first Wikidata contribution, I’m not sure I totally get it yet, so bear with me.

There is Color (P462), but no good property for specifying colors themselves.

There is sRGB color hex triplet (P465), which is of type string and would need to be split into three hexadecimal values for conversion. It only supports the sRGB color space (ca. 16.8 million colors), but there are others that are not subsets thereof.

There are several color naming systems, some systematic and some arbitrary. Many color keywords have either a specific meaning in the “digital” realm (RGB, HSL/B/V etc.) or in a physical one (CMYK, Pantone, RAL …), conversions between them are approximate or device-dependent.

Qualifiers like dark, vivid, pale, medium … may work systematically, but in popular X11/SVG/CSS color names they don’t. Multi-part color names may be joint in CamelCase, mixedCase, unicase, hyphen-case or underscore_case.

If you open the articles from the English Wikipedia provided as sources above, you’ll notice serious lagging due to many (and nested) templates doing the conversions. This should be done with Lua instead. Crissov (talk) 16:45, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Are the "Description" items in the table above the proposed labels for properties to be used to specify named colours? If yes then the 'Domain' of these properties is 'colours' since they should only be used on colour items. You should probably change "Description" to "Proposed Property".

Should these have the number(dimensionless) or the number(percent) datatype so the info here can one day be used by printers? Add a column for the datatype of the proposed properties. Filceolaire (talk) 11:05, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

What does "Pair" mean?

Yes, those are proposed properties for named colors. Some of them are redundant, though, because <aquamarine> red <50%> green <100%> blue <83%> results in the same sRGB color as <aquamarine> hue <160°> saturated <100%> lit <75%> or <aquamarine> hue <160°> saturated <50%> bright <100%>.

If the number(percent) datatype supports values below 0% and beyond 100% it would be fine for all but hue which would need a circular number(angle) datatype, if that’s available. Crissov (talk) 19:37, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking consensus, and not clear about data type. --Micru (talk) 11:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Factorization

Template:Property proposal To me this looks like a classic invocation of the string datatype, for a common infobox parameter. — PinkAmpers&^{(Je vous invite à me parler)} 21:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Support --  Docu  at 09:34, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Support will the factorization be calculated automatically? --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:16, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Comment First, I've changed the domain to "positive integers". Question: The superscript numbers don't match; ² does not resemble ⁵ at all. Furthermore, in infoboxes, these appear in <math> tags, so they would do better with '^' exponentation. Ypnypn (talk) 16:30, 23 April 2013 (UTC) (late signing)

• Template:Comment Math and chemistry mark up seems to be a Wikidata-wide issue. Maybe some thought should be put into a MathMl-Datatype? --Tobias1984 (talk) 16:40, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Comment Shouldn't the factorization be calculated automatically (maybe with Lua)? We shouldn't create an item for each positive integer, only to add "factorization"... --Ricordisamoa 05:42, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Comment "When the numbers are very large, no efficient, non-quantum integer factorization algorithm is known." It cannot be done automatically. —★PοωερZ_talk 14:06, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
  • • That being said, there's no problem with numbers under 1,000,000,000,000 – a number of that size needs a maximum of 500,000 divisions. And we're not talking about numbers bigger than that. – Ypnypn (talk) 19:08, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

{{Infobox number}} on enwiki now uses a module to calculate factorization. -- Ypnypn (talk) 03:11, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

• Agree with Ricordisamoa: small-number factorization can be computed automatically, and I do not see why we would need items about large numbers (hey, there are really many large numbers). --Zolo (talk) 14:26, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
  • We already have items for large numbers, e.g. Q507 —★PοωερZ_talk 14:31, 25 April 2013 (UTC) I have to admit factorizing this particular number is quite simple, it's 2^100 x 5^100. Nevertheless, there are other relevant large numbers for which it is not.
• Template:Oppose – Template:Infobox number is only used for small numbers which are trivially factorized. Besides the prefered representation of the factorization may be language dependent. Byrial (talk) 14:28, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Oppose I am removing my support. I think we should try to calculate this, or wait for a datatype that allows us to correctly display math. --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:11, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
• Template:O per User:Ypnypn. --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 22:14, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Strong oppose Even if it is calculated as I don't think it will serve any value only the small numbers which are trivially fast to compute actually have Wikipedia articles and thus Wikidata items. This seems more of the domain for OEIS etc. Macadamia1472 (talk) 08:37, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lack of consensus.--Micru (talk) 16:25, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

keyboard layout (en) / layout tastiera (it)

Discussion

Template:Comment Should probably be for specifying built-in physical keyboards only. Danrok (talk) 19:10, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment even products with built in keyboards often have versions with different keyboard layouts for sale in different countries. As this is usually the only localisation it is hardly worth creating a separate item but it does mean we can't use this property for those items. Filceolaire (talk) 14:03, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose per Filceolaire. Macadamia1472 (talk) 08:43, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Per comments.--Micru (talk) 11:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Symantec docid

Discussion

• Template:Oppose I propose to use Template:P and to use www.symantec.com as source using the website example of Help:Sources. Snipre (talk) 11:35, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support, alternative method suggested.--Micru (talk) 11:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

mcafee virus key

Discussion

• Template:Oppose I propose to use Template:P and to use home.mcafee.com as source using the website example of Help:Sources. Snipre (talk) 11:35, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support, alternative method suggested.--Micru (talk) 11:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

For most items, we use the full name as the label and the acronym as an "Also known as"; however, there are examples where the roles are reversed because the item is almost exclusively known by its acronym (GNU, KDE), or because the name isn't actually an acronym anymore (GNOME, SOAP, TOAD, Pan: in that case use qualifier "End date" to record when the authors decided that the name is no longer an acronym). For these items, it would be useful to be able to record the meaning of the acronym through a property (in most cases, the full name will also be an "Also known as", but that's not tool-friendly at all). DSGalaktos (talk) 13:19, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

• I'm not sure this could work. Many items are known by different acronyms in different languages, or only by acronyms at all in some languages. How could the String datatype allow all of these to be filled cleanly? --Yair rand (talk) 03:56, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Hmm. As you can see from my examples, I came at this from the "software" direction, where there's usually only one acronym - but you're completely right, there are many more aspects (off the top of my head example: english+german UFO = portuguese OVI). Maybe we could just add several instances of the property (I don't know what the official term is) with qualifiers? With the properties Template:P or Template:P with the language? --DSGalaktos (talk) 18:52, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
    • Hm, maybe. If we do that, the datatype should probably be monolingual text, not string.
    • One serious problem with this is that we end up dealing with the names of things, not the things themselves, which is conceptually problematic. This really seems more like Wiktionary's domain, rather than the kind of thing Wikidata deals with now. Perhaps it would be better to wait until Wiktionary is supported (assuming that happens at all), and then base acronym expansion in that. --Yair rand (talk) 19:57, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Better suited for Wiktionary (once cleared how it will be).--Micru (talk) 12:03, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

German classification of occupations 2010 (en) / Klassifikation der Berufe 2010 (Kldb2010) (de)

Discussion

• Template:S TomT0m (talk) 13:06, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
• Template:Neutral Would be useful for accessing census records but there is an issue of notability - most countries assign such numbers (I know NZ does) making me wonder if this should be handled using a property called "national occupation ID" etc. and then use qualifiers to distinguish German code from New Zealand codes and all the others. (if changed to 'national occupation ID I would definitely support this'.) Macadamia1472 (talk) 04:41, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:S Regarding what Macadamia1472 said: the problem of having generic IDs in this case is that there are versions (this one is 2010), so it becomes even more work intensive to enter and mantain the codes. Besides if you want to link to external websites (one for each contries) having different properties allows you to specify different links, while if the property is generic, then you would need to add the webpage (an extra field to mantain).--Micru (talk) 16:38, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done Needed by the Wikidata:Occupations and professions task force.--Micru (talk) 12:39, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

• Template:S as nominator -- When talking about court decisions it's almost universal to have a short code to identify the case, especially given that the names of cases may repeat themselves (there a probably a lot of "R v Smith" cases out there). In older cases, these codes refer to a publisher of legal decisions, each of which use their own numbering system. For more recent cases (in some jurisdictions) the courts issue their own neutral IDs for cases that all publishers can use (for example, 2013 ONCA 123 for the 123rd case heard in 2013 by the Ontario Court of Appeal). I was going to just add these to the description or the AKA field, but maybe making it an authority control item would make more sense. Arctic.gnome (talk) 17:36, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
• Template:S Can be used with Template:P, Template:P, and Template:P.--Micru (talk) 14:56, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
• Template:S This makes much sense. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 15:42, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done --Micru (talk) 18:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivation: getting all national country codes into WD, following Template:P (International), Template:P (France), Template:P (US) and Template:P (NOC for English Canada, CNP for Québec). Teolemon (talk) 11:30, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S Necessary as the other country codes.--Micru (talk) 14:42, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done Needed by the Wikidata:Occupations and professions task force.--Micru (talk) 12:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

The idea of this proposal is to apply IDs to Bavarian historic monuments in Wikidata. Also, there's no official English translation of Aktennummer. Regards, Christoph Braun (talk) 00:23, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Aktennummer means "file number". The name of the property has to be more specific. You might call it "Bavarian monuments list ID". --Kolja21 (talk) 03:22, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Template:Comment Template:Q is a work, there are 8 editions of this work in SUDOC. Example: 162538618 Bruxelles: Mappemonde, [1944.] --Kolja21 (talk) 02:11, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, my example was wrong. I changed it, thanks. — Ayack (talk) 09:21, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:S There are many libraries having both Authority Control records and permanent links to books (normally one for each edition / publisher). There should be another "class" of WD properties and the names should clearly indicate in a "(books only) reference" type of WD property name. Newbies should understand that these WD properties relate to books (only). Examples:

1. SUDOC (books only) reference
2. LCCN (books only) reference
3. DNB (books only) reference
4. NTA (books only) reference

etc. One may decide in principle about such a distinction. The creation of such WD properties should be simplified. We should not waste time waiting a week or more and waiting for sufficient supporters for each "(books only) reference". לערי ריינהארט (talk) 14:27, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:S but there is no need to rush. It's important to make clear that this is an edition only property (books, CDs etc.), used for one single edition like "French transl., Paris 2012". (Works like Hamlet are part of authority control already.) For the distinction between work and edition properties see Wikidata:Books task force. Please keep in mind that there a hundreds of library catalogs. Germany alone have 7 union catalogs (de:Bibliotheksverbund) like SUDOC. --Kolja21 (talk) 23:28, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment in France sudoc is the only union catalog with a big national scope (we should add the national library catalog as a second national cat), and as we have the authotity part of the catalog (idref Template:P) I thougt it should prevent errors to have also the books part. Symac (talk) 11:02, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I think we should agree both about a clear property name and about a simple but clear property description first. This might be:

SUDOC (books only) reference or SUDOC (edition only) reference and in order to make it clear for people from another continent SUDOC France (books only) reference or SUDOC France (edition only) reference

this property (the word identifier should be first avoided) should be used for the edition in the SUDOC database; for authority control related values one should use only (Template:P

Please make better name and text proposals. I am not a native English speaker. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 17:21, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

SUDOC catalog (editions only) --Kolja21 (talk) 20:48, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Support one of the biggest french union catalog, holding books for all french universities, with ID and an OPAC to easily reach the records. Symac (talk) 18:59, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done--Micru (talk) 13:00, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivation: getting all national country codes into WD, following Template:P (International), Template:P (France), Template:P (US) and Template:P (NOC for English Canada, CNP for Québec). Teolemon (talk) 11:30, 2 November 2013 (UTC)Teolemon (talk) 11:54, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done Needed by the Wikidata:Occupations and professions task force.--Micru (talk) 12:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivation: getting all national country codes into WD, following Template:P (International), Template:P (France), Template:P (US) and Template:P (NOC for English Canada, CNP for Québec). Teolemon (talk) 11:30, 2 November 2013 (UTC)Teolemon (talk) 19:47, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Support They are used at fr:Modèle:Infobox Métier ... לערי ריינהארט (talk) 09:39, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done Needed by the Wikidata:Occupations and professions task force.--Micru (talk) 12:49, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Light characteristic (en) / Kennung (de)/ Feu maritime (fr)/ Luz característica (es)/ Fyrkaraktär (sv)

Template:Support Use in infobox and characteristic of a specific building. Snipre (talk) 10:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:S per Snipre. --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 13:28, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose I think this should be datatype multilingual text or maybe a link to a file. What does this look like on a chart or a light list? Filceolaire (talk) 23:51, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't think multilingual text (which don't even have) would be suitable for this. --  Docu  at 10:33, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Question Looking at the English and Spanish tables, it seems that it can be expressed with items and qualifiers. Is it worth it?--Micru (talk) 12:41, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Good question and interesting field to discover. The problem is that items within properties have currently no defined order. I'd rather opt for string-datatype with a qualifier for the notation used, unless we can agree to use just the "international" one. A string would also allow easy constraint checks with currently available tools. --  Docu  at 12:26, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Property sorting is being worked on, and if the data is stored as items a script can sort it/format it any way it is needed. What is unclear to me is if it would be interesting to query lighthouses by type of light, period, etc.?--Micru (talk) 13:51, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

I doubt breaking the blinks into items would make that easier. I'd go with string datatype. The label could probably be improved. I'd include at least the term "navigational". --  Docu  at 10:33, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Micrus suggestion is not a bad idea at all. In that case we need one item for every base characteristic (Flash, Long Flash, Alternating, Isophase, etc). For qualifieras we already have Template:P, but we need time, height and range as well (numeric datatypes not available yet, unfortunatly). We would also need a "letter"-property for lights with morse characteristic. An "angle"-property would be great for specifying light sectors. But how do we specify the characteristic "Fl(1+4)" (used by Template:Q) with qualifiers? /Esquilo (talk) 11:55, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Support as appears to be an established international standard that I doubt could be comprehensively expressed as items (and it wouldn't need to be translated, my common grievance with strings). Macadamia1472 (talk) 04:49, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Done As string, since it doesn't require translation.--Micru (talk) 18:40, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

word size (bits)

Discussion

Note that there are article items for some word sizes, but not all. That is why I am proposing this as a number. Perhaps another property can be used to link the items, where there is one. Also, please see the word size (decimals) proposal. Danrok (talk) 16:52, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Not enough support.--Micru (talk) 17:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

word size (decimals)

Discussion

Also, please see the word size (bits) proposal. Danrok (talk) 16:52, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Do we really need two properties? Try to model it somehow as one. It could work perhaps completely without decimal/bits as the item itself should be Template:P decimal processor or Template:P decimal processor. Or you use qualifiers.  — Felix Reimann (talk) 17:13, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by an instance of a "decimal processor"? Word size, as proposed here, does not apply only to processors, it can be used as part of the specification for other devices within computer architecture, and not only devices. It's just a form of measurement. Danrok (talk) 19:23, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Not enough support.--Micru (talk) 17:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

FIFA Rank

Template:Not done Not enough support.--Micru (talk) 18:04, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

medical discipline / (fr) spécialité concernée

Discussion

I guess the question is where will we find a list to fill this in? Or will this simply be done manually? Jmh649 (talk) 21:14, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

• If there is no structured data available then we will have to do it by hand and find appropriate sources. I'm pretty confident that we can do this pretty quickly at least for the more common diseases. --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:26, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
• what for…? Kaligula (talk) 06:59, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

• I can understand your concern. The information would be aimed at people with a low degree of education. I'm conflicted where to draw the line between "information" and "stating the obvious". But most of the frequent contributors to this project are highly educated and are therefore bound to set the bar differently from the average reader (one of the many incarnations of the en:Curse of knowledge). --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:10, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
• All diseases are assigned a ICD-10 code. The article ICD-10 Clinical Modification provides a list of prefixes for this code, showing that all that start with I could be assigned cardiology and for others ranges could be defined i.e F11-F23 as prefixes. Macadamia1472 (talk) 08:16, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

• What is the purpose of this property? The example does not make it clear. --Izno (talk) 23:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I assigns every medical condition a medical speciality that is concerned with that condition. For any tooth related conditions that would be a dentistry and cancer would be oncology. --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:44, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• Comment The way this is written it seems like information for a biography about a particular doctor, but the way Tobias1984 is describing this is as if this were for a hierarchy for medical conditions. I would want this clarified before I give in opinion. Could I see a completed example? Blue Rasberry (talk) 12:54, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• I updated the proposal to be a little clearer, but if not even the Medicine task force can gather any support for this it might be better to send this to the archive for now. --Tobias1984 (talk) 13:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

In principle I support this parameter, but there should be some strict guidelines for how to use it. The example of cataract is very simple, but for a disease like systemic lupus erythematosus you could list almost a dozen specialties. Would that be listed as 'multidisciplinary'? Or would all specialties, no matter how remotely involved, be added? --WS (talk) 13:54, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Consensus not reached.--Micru (talk) 18:57, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

neuron morphology

Discussion

Template:Comment I have thought about this for a while. Probably better to use "subclass of" for this. --Tobias1984 (talk) 15:09, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment I think morphology is more about the general 'template' of a object etc. so I think it should be distinct from 'subclass of'. However I think just calling the property 'morphology' would suffice as I am sure other biological structures (non-neural cells?) have morphologies so a more broad property would be more useful Macadamia1472 (talk) 08:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done As per comments.--Micru (talk) 18:57, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

International Standard Musical Work Code (en)

Discussion

Template:S--Micru (talk) 14:33, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose. See 'Catalog' at the top of the page. Filceolaire (talk) 21:03, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

This is the same as the ISBN, but for music. Unless the ISBN property is deleted and replaced by "catalog code" (I doubt that it can be stretched that much), I think this property makes sense.--Micru (talk) 22:16, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Template:Q

"Catalog" => Template:Q

"catalog code" => "T-010.567.077-6"

Seems to work fine. Can't see any reason it wouldn't work for ISBNs too though, for me, the ISBN for music would be Template:Q. Filceolaire (talk) 14:16, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

• Template:S still think it is better to keep identifiers separate in the current state of Wikidata. --Tobias1984 (talk) 06:52, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Unclear. Might be reopened in the future.--Micru (talk) 19:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Looking at this infographic I think it would be interesting to colect such data here.--Micru (talk) 19:03, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support.--Micru (talk) 19:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

• Template:Comment this is one part of picture format. --Danrok (talk) 01:27, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Lacking support. Might be reopened.--Micru (talk) 19:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivation. GZWDer (talk) 11:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment why does Template:P need to be replaced? --Danrok (talk) 23:26, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:P is a untranslated string.--GZWDer (talk) 11:13, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Where do we need this ? I do not think it makes sense for books: if there is a published translation, it can have its own item, otherwise we can simply use the label and description. For films perhaps, to indicate the official title under which a movie was released somewhere. But sometimes, the same movie is released under different titles in different countries that speak the same language. I would think it is better to use qualifiers in Template:P, with the original title marked as "preferred". --Zolo (talk) 21:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done--Micru (talk) 19:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivation. GZWDer (talk) 11:20, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment Can you please provide more information? You've created a large number of proposals which are very thin on detail. Please fill-in the details, otherwise I may have to close them all. --Danrok (talk) 21:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

see Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions/Archive/2013/Properties/3#given name (P735). P734 and P742 was also in PFD.--GZWDer (talk) 10:42, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done --Micru (talk) 20:21, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivation. GZWDer (talk) 11:20, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Question how does this differ from "Also known as?"
Jared Zimmerman (talk) 21:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done --Micru (talk) 20:21, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Sycomore

Discussion

Database maintained by the French parliament. I think it is complete for the 19th and 20th century which means we would have a nice way to make sure we have a complete database of French MPs on Wikidata. I think that would be a nice thing. Zolo (talk) 15:00, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

1. Template:Support — Ayack (talk) 15:50, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
2. Template:Support — Kolja21 (talk) 00:05, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Ayack, [[[User:Kolja21|Kolja21]]: done as Template:P

Car classification / Fahrzeugklasse / Segment automobile / Классификация автомобилей

Discussion

Motivation. My first proposal, hope it is right. Thanks Crazy1880 (talk) 18:45, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Oppose: Use Template:P. --Izno (talk) 21:44, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Crazy. The name you have picked for this property is a bit general. I think a more appropriate name would be 'type of car' or 'class of vehicle' which would make it clear what this particular property does. Having said that there is a case for using Template:P instead of this property in the examples you quote (Template:P would not be suitable - that is for linking car classes like Template:Q and Template:Q to more general classes like 'Template:Q'). Filceolaire (talk) 22:18, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

A particular type or kind of car ("Jeep Cherokee") will almost always be a class of cars (in this case, SUVs), not an individual car. So no, P279 is the correct use. --Izno (talk) 01:40, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

• Template:Oppose I think 'subclass of' or 'instance of' is sufficient. Macadamia1472 (talk) 22:43, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Moin Moin from Germany, there for it is a discussion. So best way to do this, if i will understand, is to set Template:P with 'Template:Q' and Template:P with Template:Q or Template:Q or Template:Q or something else, right? regards --Crazy1880 (talk) 07:36, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

P279 should not be a qualifier of P31, see Help:Basic membership properties. I agree that using P279 seems the best solution here.

A car model is a subclass of car, not an instance, but we also need to distinguish car models from broader classes like SUV. I think Jeep Cherokee is "subclass of SUV, instance of Template:Q. --Zolo (talk) 08:16, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Do you mean it so: Template:Q ? regards --Crazy1880 (talk) 16:46, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Like so. --Izno (talk) 21:11, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Use Template:P.--Micru (talk) 19:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

fuel type

Template:S Simple link used in the specs infobox. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 07:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:S --Danrok (talk) 13:42, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Comment - I think this property is too similar with Template:P. You could aliases to that property. --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:06, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Redundant with Template:P (now it has the alias "fuel type").--Micru (talk) 17:50, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

first run

Template:S Currently used in many articles with the infobox. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 07:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Oppose Use Template:P in order to add more date like resizing, renovation, destruction,... Snipre (talk) 11:27, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Question The problem with Template:P is that it is an 'item' type, so it has to link to a significant event. While the date of first run is a notable milestone in the life of an engine design, much like Template:P for aircraft, it rarely is an event that has its own item to link to (in fact I have not found one yet), so there is nothing to put in for Template:P. I would hate to have to create a slew of new items for each engine or aircraft ('First run of the Gnome Rhone Mistral Major', 'First flight of the Lockheed C-130 Hercules', etc.) just to have something to put in Template:P. Any ideas on this? Joshbaumgartner (talk) 05:46, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

One possibility is to create an item called first engine run, and use that for all, rather than create a specific first run item for each engine. --Danrok (talk) 13:40, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Not done Use Template:P or Template:P.--Micru (talk) 17:46, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:TranslateThis

Discussion

Motivazione. Viscontino (talk) 17:43, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

• I have waited for this! -- Lavallen (talk) 20:13, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support; someone should propose archive date as well if we don't have it yet. --Izno (talk) 20:21, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
• Template:Support --Paperoastro (talk) 08:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Template:Done --Viscontino (talk) 23:13, 10 January 2014 (UTC)